New stove...

[dagibbs]

My stove is old. It has been slowly dieing for a while now. The elements don't auto-light, and now the oven has stopped working. So I need a new stove. And, while I like using a gas stove, unfortunately you have to have an (expensive) professional come in and uninstall the old (disconnect) and reconnect the new. Two visits. Both, essentially, trivial (from what I can see that would need doing). First estimate for those two visits: $270.

I wonder if I can do it myself. It can't be more complicated than: close the valve; disconnect piping. Reconnect piping; open the valve. Are there natural gas police out there that would get me if I do it myself?

Comments

[zenten.livejournal.com]

So... who gets your board games if you blow yourself up?

[waterspyder.livejournal.com]

The answer to this question would affect my advice

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Most likely case -- I take them with me. :)

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Well, if I blow myself up... the boardgames, being mostly paper, cardboard, wood and some plastic -- all quite flammable -- would almost certainly go with me.

[zenten.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but they're two rooms over. There's a reasonable chance that they'd survive.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Depends on whether the whole house goes up.

Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[elizilla]

As long as you already have a gas stove, you shouldn't need any new gas plumbing installed. Maybe Ontario is different, but in Michigan when you buy a new gas stove or clothes dryer, the people who deliver it take the old stove away and hook the new stove up for you. That delivery is negotiated as part of the purchase, and the cost should be trivial. Certainly not $270. More like "free with purchase", or $25 or $50.

IMHO the hardest part is moving the new appliance in gracefully enough to not bash up the plumbing. I'm handy enough to do the tool-user parts myself and I even have a truck, but I'm bad at moving big awkward heavy things so I wouldn't attempt to put in a stove. You don't have a truck and your place is awkward to move appliances in and out of, so I'd totally pay the delivery men if I were you.

Re: Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

I'm buying new, rather than used.

They will deliver & remove the stove -- but apparently in Ontario, to do anything with gas you have to be specially licensed. So, the appliance stores do delivery in your price range (I've had "free" and "$60" quoted), but the gas disconnect/reconnect has to be a certified/licensed technician. They're delivery people are, basically, a truck driver & muscle.

And, yes, I intend to pay for the delivery/removal if it isn't included.

Re: Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[elizilla]

You could disconnect the old one yourself, and then just pay for one visit from the licensed extortionists, to have the new one hooked up.

Re: Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

That's the route I'm thinking of going. Hopefully the licensed extortionist won't refuse to hook up cause I didn't pay a licensed extortionist to disconnect.

Re: Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[eviljohn.livejournal.com]

Yup, I'd agree with that. The place you bought it from's installer should be able to do it all in one trip, usually for a modest fee.

I've taken out and installed stoves, it's not a big deal. The biggest worry not breaking something moving it or scratching up the floor. They're big and pretty unwieldy.

Re: Are you buying the stove new, or used?

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

See above comment about "licensed technicians" in Ontario.

[tanac.livejournal.com]

Your homeowner's insurance may get pissy if there are problems related to it down the road and you had someone unlicensed install it.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there is that. And I'm definitely unlicensed.

I may see if what I can find for other quotes, maybe if they clean my furnace at the same time, there may be less knock-on-the-door cost.

[mycrazyhair.livejournal.com]

Please don't get dead. We like having you around.

Signed, the worrywart

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I will try to make sure I don't get dead. I kind of like being around, too.

[also-huey.livejournal.com]

There are, near as I can tell, three issues involved here:
1) What are the local laws?
2) (depending on the answer to #1) How comfortable are you with breaking those?, and
3) Irrespective of the answers to #1 and #2, how comfortable are you in your own abilities to Not Fuck This Up?

My own answers for that would be 1) beats the hell out of me, 2) what they don't know can't hurt me, and 3) pretty comfortable, but these answers do not help you. You will need to supply your own, and make your decision accordingly.

However, I can tell you that the secret to #3 is a spray bottle containing mostly water and a tiny amount of dish detergent. Connect fittings with pipe dope, open valve to apply gas pressure, spray soapy water on fittings to ensure no bubbles appear. If bubbles appear, UR DOIN IT RONG and you leave yourself open to the possibility of blowing up all of your shit, so you need to tighten, reapply pipe dope, replace loose fittings, what-have-you.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Yup.

Along with 1 & 2 is, what I'll call 2' -- which tanac raised -- will it invalidate my house-owners insurance if they find out I did it myself?

3. I'm pretty comfortable with not fuck up. I grew up with a cottage with propane for lights, stove, fridge. (Propane fridges -- way neat, way cool. They use a hot flame to keep the contents of the fridge cold. There's some nifty science there.) The disconnect -- no problem at all. The reconnect is going to require more care.

[foms.livejournal.com]

Another question: if you choose to abandon gas and go to an electric stove, do you already have the appropriate electric circuit in place? If not, what are the possible costs for installing such?

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

I would prefer to stay with gas -- I like having a gas stove.

There doesn't look to be an appropriate plug, so it would (likely) have to be run from the break-box. This would be an accross-the-basement, then up run -- not too difficult, but probably at least comparable in cost to the gas cost.

[reyl.livejournal.com]

Gas stoves are sexy. You being barbequed, less sexy. I vote for paying a professional. Sometimes it's better to pay to get things done right the first time. Of course this is coming from someone who can barely tell which is the business end of the wrench.

[redrunn.livejournal.com]

A couple of questions - do you have a gas shutoff valve on the line to the stove, or will you need to shut gas off to the entire house for the move? I'm assuming it's a flare nut on the gas line - do you have a flaring tool if you need to redo the flare on the gas line? If the answers to both questions is 'yes', then I think it's fairly simple to do the hookup. One other thing to consider is where the line connects on the existing stove, and where it connects on the new stove - if you've got hard pipe and a short connection line and the coupling moves it may require some change in copper pipes - adding or removing a piece - and this makes the job much more interesting. I've unconnected and reconnected our dryer several times for repair work and it really isn't any more complicated then you say above - as long as all existing pipe/connections are in the right place.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

There looks to be a shut-off valve right at the stove, which is why I think the disconnect will be fairly simple. No, I don't have a flaring tool. At least for the disconnect, I don't think I'll need it. (I might for the reconnect, but I'm thinking to pay for that half of things.)

The reconnect, that is where things are more complicated -- the location matching and such stuff. Also, getting the connection to the stove safe is pretty important.

[zenten.livejournal.com]

Yeah, as long as you've turned off the gas the worst that could happen with you doing the disconnect is that you damage something that will require more money to fix, and if you're used to this type of work I don't think that's likely.

[http://users.livejournal.com/niall_/]

Check here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=106967

Someone with the ontario gas code books lists the exceptions as to "can do it yourself, but must have inspector approve before turning on". Now, whether there's a cost for this inspection as well is another matter; and whether that cost is significantly less than the $270 to make DIY worth it, or whether it's so little less that you're better off letting all the professionals handle it...

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Thanks niall_. That's useful to know.

I'm pretty sure the inspection will be about 1/2 the $270, since it will be only one visit, not two. If I combine it with a furnace cleaning (which I will want anyway) it may even be less.

[http://users.livejournal.com/niall_/]

Found more info: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/beware-enbridge-767525/#post9168731

Assuming your gas is with Enbridge, it's a $65 charge for inspection. Of course, if it's not done correctly, they may pile on the necessary things to correct, but it could still be much less than $270 total.

Interesting and recent thread, read both pages, discarding the obvious scam victims.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I think this is the regulation you are looking for:

http://www.tssa.org/CorpLibrary/ArticleFile.asp?Instance=136&ID=4A5CEE3F306C4A8CA48AE23735EAA148

In this case hire the pro, penny wise is pound foolish.