Airlines are wierd.

[dagibbs]

I'm looking at a potential climbing trip to the Swiss alps this summer.

I don't know where I'm going to fly into, but I'm looking at either Geneva or Zurich. And, I'm looking at flying out of Montreal (since I'll be coming back just before Anticipation).

Apparently for 60K miles, I can fly YUL-GVA-ZHR and ZHR-GVA-YUL. But, if I just want to fly YUL-GVA and GVA-YUL that will cost me 86K miles. It takes the exact same flights on the YUL-GVA-YUL segment. Yet, to fly a shorter distance, using fewer seats and less gas and luggage handling will cost 40% more.

[edit for clarity: the shorter route is a proper subset of the longer. Exact same flights, just the longer one adds more stuff to the end (going)/start(returning) of the other route. ]

I don't understand.

(P.S. when are they going to convert to air-kms?)

Comments

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

there is possibly less demand for the YUL-GVA-ZHR and ZHR-GVA-YUL route. Less demand = more promotional effort to get people to use it.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

So, what you're saying is that you think they're giving me a big discount on the YUL-GVA segment to promote the GVA-ZHR segment? When the GVA-ZHR segment isn't even an Air Canada segment?

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't realize the longer route was a straight out extension of the shorter route.

You got me, I have no clue why they would make it cheaper to take the exact same route, but go further. Maybe a time of day thing?

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

The shorter route is a proper subset of the longer route. It takes the exact same flights as the longer route, not just the same segments.

[zenten.livejournal.com]

Could you buy a ticket for the longer portion, and then just get off at the part you want to get off at?

[iclysdale.livejournal.com]

Airline math is just plain weird. I've found the same flight with several hundred dollars in price difference by booking it through a different partner, if it's crosslisted United/Air Canada, or BMI/AC, or whatever.

[iclysdale.livejournal.com]

Oh, also - your cheapest bet may be to fly to Paris, and take the TGV high-speed train from there to Geneva.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

In air miles -- probably not. NA - Europe is probably a basic 60K where-ever I end up, if I find the cheap options.

If I really do need to end up in Geneva, getting from Zurich to there by train might be better. I'm just not actually (yet) sure where I need to end up, was looking at both, and was just goggled by the comparison.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

There are some... complexities with that. Like my luggage continuing on to Zurich without me.

And the fact that the airline might auto-cancel my return ticket if I don't make the last leg. Or the airline may not allow me to come home by starting part way along my trip.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Yeah -- I've notice that, too.

[zenten.livejournal.com]

Ah. I didn't realize how sneaky they are at making you cost them more money.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

I know. They are just bizarre.

[rmeidaking.livejournal.com]

"So, what you're saying is that you think they're giving me a big discount on the YUL-GVA segment to promote the GVA-ZHR segment? When the GVA-ZHR segment isn't even an Air Canada segment? "

That was exactly my thought: The Swiss are bribing you to fly farther into the country, and not sneak over into France.

Where are you going climbing? That should rule your decision.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Somewhere in South-east Switzerland. I'm not sure either is most convenient.

[con-girl.livejournal.com]

probably it is that they have x seats per routing that they offer at 60k, and then y seats at 80k. people who book early enough get a seat at the better connection and price, when those are gone, people can pick either the loner routing or the better route for more points. It's to maximize getting you to spend points.

[renniekins.livejournal.com]

I did that once, it was cheaper for some weird reason to fly Flint-Detroit-X than Detroit-X. So I got a ride to Flint for the way there, flew over my house to Detroit Metro, and then flew to wherever I was going. On the way home I just got out at Detroit and went home (I didn't check luggage, of course, and I'd be a lot more nervous if it had been the first trip not the second....).

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

The longer route complete includes the shorter route. So, if shorter route is full, then the longer route should, also, be full at the lower price point. And, I refreshed the shorter route after getting the price on the longer route just to make sure the last "cheap" seat on the shorter route hadn't gone away. Nope.

It isn't that we're looking at, say, two different routes to the same place -- long or short. It is that the longer completely follows the shorter, then goes onwards, but is still cheaper.

[rmeidaking.livejournal.com]

How long will you be there? The Swiss Rail Pass is a terrific bargain if you're going to be there for more than a couple of days. It's not worth it to get the First Class upgrade either; second class is pretty nice in Switzerland.

One can get from one end of the country to the other in a day if one times it right; I did a loop from Meiringen through Bern and Zurich one day, and a there-and-back trip from Meiringen to the Matterhorn another day. I will have to go back to do the Glacier Express. I have a serious itch to get a EurailPass and do this throughout Europe, but that will have to wait a couple of years (until the budget recovers).

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

If I wasn't checking luggage, and I wasn't needing to return, that could work. Jumping off before the last segment should be easy.

But, with taking climbing gear over, I'm going to be checking luggage.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Depends on the plan, but probably there for about 2 weeks. I'm not sure what I'd be doing for transportation.

[kd5mdk.livejournal.com]

Usually if someone is booking the AC flight number on a BMI plane, it's because they need to Buy Canadian (or at least it is in the US). An alternative reason is that you might get more elite status miles from AC for that class of ticket than they would from BMI. I mostly focus on American and British Airways, but it's certainly the case there.
Other times the codeshare is cheaper because the sharer wants to offer service to its residents/fliers at a price they will pay, as opposed to what can be extracted from the locals.

Airline pricing is probably one of the closest examples of absolute profit maximizing you can find. Including charging more for a shorter trip because the local market will pay more.

[http://users.livejournal.com/niall_/]

I think that there's a set of cheap seats for the direct flight, and a second set of cheap seats for the connection flights, so you have two categories of 60k seats on YUL-GVA. Could be the direct cheap seats are already taken, but fewer people want to go all the way to Zurich, and some of those are currently available.

I know someone who used to be a travel agent, and it's stuff like this which makes it difficult to become one. On one hand, it's maddeningly logical in an almost mathematical manner (as was mentioned, to maximise profits from tiny margins); and on the Average Traveller's hand, it looks insane...

[beable]

That has amused me in the past with airfares

e.g. flying Ottawa-Vancouver-Seattle being $200 cheaper than just flying Ottawa-Vancouver (on the exact same flight).

Or Ottawa-Chicago-Milwaukee being cheaper than the same flight Ottawa-Chicago.